For nearly three decades, the Twin Towers stood as a monument to all that was wonderful about America. They demonstrated American ingenuity. They symbolized American dominance. No matter where you were in New York City, all you had to do to get your bearings was look up.
When they were destroyed on Sept. 11, 2001, a part of America went with them. Although the United States had long ago lost its innocence, the destruction of the Twin Towers served as a new kind of loss. It was personal. Not only was it the first act of war by a foreign entity on the U.S. mainland, it was also an act of religious zealotry by a group of Islamic jihadists led by the arch-terrorist Osama bin Laden.
And now, a year before the anniversary of 9/11, just blocks from the site where the towers of the World Trade Center burst into flames before crumbling into rumble, a group of Islamic fundamentalists with shady ties to Middle Eastern extremists is working hard to build a mosque that will send five calls to worship a day echoing through the gaping canyon where the towers once stood.
As far back as the Ottoman Empire, Islamic rulers made a habit of converting Christian churches, monasteries and chapels into mosques. The Muslims reserved their most elaborate mosques, however, for the sites where the churches had been taken by force. In many cases, the mosques were the first structures to be built by Muslim invaders -- even before the ruler's residences.
The proponents of the Ground Zero mosque will tell you that the mosque belongs at the site, if for no other reason than to serve as a symbol of tolerance and diversity. They'll tell you that Christianity is also wet with the blood of hundreds of generations and that the very essence of liberty demands that Christian or Jewish Americans who oppose the structure step aside and allow the $100 million, 15 story building to be erected.
Here's what they won't tell you:
The proponents of the Ground Zero mosque won't tell you that the erection of mosques traditionally symbolizes victory over the enemies of Islam. They won't tell you that the chants of "Allahu Akbar!" that will repeatedly ring throughout the city at every prayer time is the same chant that was captured on the voice recorders of Flight 93. They won't tell you that shooter Nadal Hisan repeatedly shouted "Allahu Akbar!" as he shot and killed 13 people at the Fort Hood military base in Texas. They won't tell you that "Allahu Akbar!" is traditionally shouted at prayer time, when animals are slaughtered and when the mujihadeen behead an enemy.
Tonight we learn that President Barack Obama has given his blessing to building a mosque at Ground Zero, and in fact, has virtually mandated it.
"As a citizen and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country," Obama said. "That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."No one is saying that Muslims don't have a right to practice their religion, but let's at least find out where the money is coming from to pay for this thing. And why must it tower over the site? If it were a simple two-story center for prayers, it might have been more palatable for the thousands of people who continue to mourn the loss of loved ones who were turned to dust in the attacks. While all these questions have yet to be fully and definitively answered, the biggest one is why does it need to be there at all? There are more than a half a dozen other mosques in the immediate area -- East 55th Street, 96th Street and 3rd Avenue, West 29th Street, Allen Street, Warren Street, 116th Street, 126th Street, St. Nicholas Avenue, and that's just Manhattan. There are dozens and dozens across the five boroughs.
The mosque at Ground Zero is being pursued to prove a simple political point -- that Islamic fundamentalists can knock our buildings down, murder our citizens and then use our own laws against us so they can laugh in our faces.
Additional Reading:
Did Obama Support the Mosque or Not? from Tom Murse, Contributing Writer at U.S. Government Info
The False Fears of the Ground Zero Mosque from Pierre Tristam, Guide to Middle East Issues
Obama Messaging on Islam, Christianity is Muddled from Deboarh White, Guide to U.S. Liberal Politics
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Top Photo © Getty Images Archive
Bottom Photo © New York Daily News Archive via Getty Images
Comments
Hi Justin –
“And why must it tower over the site?”
It doesn’t. The proposed mosque will be housed in an existing 13 story structure. There are two very large buildings between it and Ground Zero. It has no view of Ground Zero. Should buildings ever be again erected on Ground Zero, all that they could ever see, depending on their height, would be the roof of the mosque.
Here’s the Google Map.
http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&source=embed&hl=en&geocode=&q=45+park+place,+new+york,+ny&sll=34.009099,-118.388126&sspn=0.023924,0.019419&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=45+Park+Pl,+New+York,+10007&t=h&ll=40.713407,-74.010252&spn=0.001626,0.002784&z=18&iwloc=A
“a group of Islamic fundamentalists with shady ties to Middle Eastern extremists is working hard to build a mosque that will send five calls to worship a day echoing through the gaping canyon where the towers once stood.”
He hasn’t denounced Hamas, I’ll give you that. Other than that, the FBI has used him for Muslim outreach. George W. Bush included him an interfaith breakfast, after 911.
“They won’t tell you that the chants of “Allahu Akbar!” that will repeatedly ring throughout the city at every prayer time is the same chant that was captured on the voice recorders of Flight 93.”
You know, I’ve never actually heard a call to prayer in a Western city. Not in New York. Not in Chicago. Not even from the local mosque. Are you sure about this?
“Allah Akbar!” God is great.
Yes. Observant Muslims are required to pray five times a day. There is a room in the Pentagon where they pray. The Pentagon was also attacked on 911. If ever there are buildings erected on Ground Zero, there may be rooms assigned for Muslim prayer.
“Tonight we learn that President Barack Obama has given his blessing to building a mosque at Ground Zero, and in fact, has virtually mandated it.”
The local zoning board did vote 29 to 1 in favor of the mosque. This is a local land use issue, isn’t it? There is a mosque four blocks from Ground Zero on the opposite side. Should it be closed? How about the strip club around the corner from the mosque? How far from Ground Zero should this mosque be located?
“The mosque at Ground Zero is being pursued to prove a simple political point — that Islamic fundamentalists can knock our buildings down, murder our citizens and then use our own laws against us so they can laugh in our faces.”
You are correct, though. The Mosque at Ground Zero is being pursued to make a simple political point. To conflate all Muslims with jihadists. To create a dumb, false controversy. To appeal to our most basic racist instincts. To equate one of the major religions of the world with a cult, unworthy of Constitutional protection.
The original Tweet from Sarah Palin,”Ground Zero Mosque supporters: doesn’t it stab you in the heart, as it does ours throughout the heartland? Peaceful Muslims, pls refudiate”
American Muslims died in the Twin Towers. Here’s a partial list from About.com
http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm
Mike Bloomberg had a very good response to the controversy. You should read it. The last poll that I saw indicated that 52% of New Yorkers did not want the mosque.
Nevertheless, I don’t want the federal government involved in what is effectively a local issue. I find the concept unconservative. You do know that this exactly what you are talking about?
BTW, I’ve been down this road before. Do a web search for “Palos Heights Mosque”. That was before 911. And if you are really interested research the original Cordoba Mosque. Not Newt Gingrich’s version.
RT: “It has no view of Ground Zero.”
Objection to the mosque at Ground Zero goes much deeper than its physical placement. The terrorist attack on 9/11 murdered 3,000 of our fellow citizens. Americans in all 50 states were and remain emotionally involved. To suggest that the mosque is no big deal – it’s in some 13-story structure, 2 buildings between it and GZ – is to miss the point of the opposition. We still visit Gettysburg, Pearl Harbor, Auschwitz. These are poignant memories, as they should be. It allows the visitor a great sense of common heritage (that is one of the first things to go in a Communist take-over). To so flagrantly push for the mosque at what could be considered a shrine is unconscionable.
“the FBI has used him for Muslim outreach. George W. Bush included him an interfaith breakfast, after 911.”
So what? My guess is that the FBI uses anyone to further their goals of protection. As for Bush, I don’t know how much he knew about this man back then, but I would hope that today Bush would not include him.
“I’ve never actually heard a call to prayer in a Western city.”
We all understand that the nose of the camel is in the tent.
“Observant Muslims are required to pray five times a day. There is a room in the Pentagon where they pray.”
When they pray in the Pentagon, is it done on taxpayers’ time?
“There is a room in the Pentagon where they pray. The Pentagon was also attacked on 911.”
Is this meant to be some type of dramatic irony or something? To me, it means they just like to kill people and they are not choosy about their victims.
“The local zoning board did vote 29 to 1 in favor of the mosque.”
And I’ll bet that none of the 29 are liberal or politically correct people.
“This is a local land use issue, isn’t it?”
Yes, it is. So why was Obama weighing in? Silly me. I forgot that the man has to weigh in on everything.
“There is a mosque four blocks from Ground Zero on the opposite side.”
So why the need to build one at Ground Zero?
“How about the strip club around the corner from the mosque?”
It should probably be allowed to remain open as a matter of convenience. Muslims like drinking and Western strippers.
“How far from Ground Zero should this mosque be located?”
6,556 miles would be a good start.
“To create a dumb, false controversy.”
The controversy may be dumb and false to you, but for those of us who have hindsight, foresight, and a grasp of consequences, it is an important fight.
“To appeal to our most basic racist instincts.”
yada yada yada
“American Muslims died in the Twin Towers.”
Muslims are baffling that way, they like to kill their own.
RT: Most Americans understand that just because we can do something doesn’t mean we should. This mosque could have been built elsewhere. I hardly think it is just a coincidence that they chose Ground Zero. Justin’s comments I believe more than prove a lack of coincidence.
Hi Lila –
RT: “It has no view of Ground Zero.”
>>Objection to the mosque at Ground Zero goes much deeper than its physical placement.
Justin asked a question about the physical placement. I gave him an answer.
“We still visit Gettysburg, Pearl Harbor, Auschwitz.”
Pearl Harbor. Have you ever visited the Japanese Shinto shrine above Pearl Harbor? Beautiful place. Make a point of ringing the bell.
“As for Bush, I don’t know how much he knew about this man back then, but I would hope that today Bush would not include him.”
Okay, I’ll bite. What do you know about him? George Bush, in many of his speeches, made a point of pointing out that Wahaabism is a perversion of mainstream Islam. Part of the real moderation of the man.
“How about the strip club around the corner from the mosque?”
>>It should probably be allowed to remain open as a matter of convenience.
You allow strip joints at shrines? And just the presence of the mosque is enough to desecrate that shrine?
“American Muslims died in the Twin Towers.”
>>Muslims are baffling that way, they like to kill their own.
Yeah. There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. Any or all of them could be terrorists. Islam is a cult, undeserving of Constitutional protection. Do I have that right?
“To create a dumb, false controversy.”
>>The controversy may be dumb and false to you, but for those of us who have hindsight, foresight, and a grasp of consequences, it is an important fight.
Again, I’ll bite. What are the possible consequences of the mosque, two blocks from Ground Zero?
This is this month’s Terri Schiavo. The functioning of the federal government will have to stop before this gets resolved. If you are into taking bets, I’ll bet that there is a bill working it’s way through Congress before the month is over, pertaining to zoning regulations in lower Manhattan.
Dumb doesn’t quite cover it.
Don’t you realize that if the group building this were moderate that they would not be proposing the project in the first place. It is incredibly insensitive and insulting to locate it near ground zero. It makes me sick that they are using the laws of this great country of ours to do this. Osama bin Laden must be laughing his ass off at us over this disgrace.
Interesting, RT. so, I’m sensing you believe Osama might actually be behind this mosque after all? But not to gloat over the 3,000 Americans he and his disciples killed on 9/11, but because he wants to prove that America is a nation of hypocrites, and that it is better to remain COMPLETELY intolerant of any other religious practice than to PRETEND to be something you’re actually not.
What I personally find interesting about all the support for the mosque is that the people in favor of it constantly talk about American hypocrisy, yet fail to mention that in every single Islamic country, the mere mention of building a synagogue is enough to get you killed. There isn’t even a pretense of religious tolerance. Just recently, several American aid workers were killed because the Muslim leaders in the Afghanistan town where these workers were helping people believed they were trying to convert people to Christiaity. What they were really doing was trying to fix people’s eyesight (one of the workers killed was an opthamologist) and cleft palates (one was a plastic surgeon). They were killed because of their affiliation with an organization called Mennonite Central Committee. They had no intention of converting Muslims. They were just a group of Christians perfoming acts of kindness for the poor. Forget about building a church, these people were killed because they committed the crime of existing as Christians in a Muslim society. Incidentally, I knew one of the guys. Not well, but well enough that we recognized each other when we saw each other. The group is based out of Lancaster County , Pennsylvania, where I live and I was fortunate to do sme consulting work for them arranging press and handling PR when they met with Iranian president Ahmadinejad in 2007 (against President Bush’s wishes).
Regardless of whatever point you were trying to make here, RT, at least the Ground Zero Mosque has been given a fair hearing. If it is ultimately denied, which I hope it is, whether through an act of Congress (if that’s what it takes) or some other means, the U.S. is still far and away more religiously tolerant than the people who are trying to build the thing. And before you object or refute, think about all the wonderfully diverse things you’ve previously mentioned that exist in America — a Japanese bell at Pearl Harbor, a floor in the (former) World Trade Center for Muslim prayer, etc. So, if Americans don’t want a mosque at Ground Zero and ultimately prevail in preventing one, I think they can be forgiven this particular denial in the face of so much overwhelming diversity everywhere else. Yes, people have a right to pray where and when they want to, but people also have a right to grieve where and when they want to. The fact that this Imam has shown such amazing insensitivity toward this site, not only proves to me that he and his fellow Muslims have no religious tolerance, it also proves to me that the have no tact, either.
Incidentally, the stuff about the mosque towering over the site was in reply to a blog post by Pierre Tristam over at Middle East Issues at About.com. I forgot to include the link. Here it is: http://middleeast.about.com/od/terrorism/a/Pandering-Opposition-Ground-Zero-Mosque.htm
Hi Eddie –
“Osama bin Laden must be laughing his ass off at us over this disgrace.”
I’m sure that he is, but perhaps not for that particular reason.
Shortly after the invasion of Iraq, George W. Bush referred to the invasion as a ‘Crusade’. Osama jumped on it, as proof that America is at war with Islam. George back pedaled. Osama wants us to conflate all Islam will Al Quada. And we are obliging him.
Per Osama, we talk a good game. We just don’t mean it. For example, the Ground Zero Mosque. We talk about religious freedom. We talk about separation of church and state. When it comes right down to it, maybe he is right. Do you want an injunction against the mosque? How about a bill in Congress?
I wonder what else Osama wants us to do?
Hi Justin –
“so, I’m sensing you believe Osama might actually be behind this mosque after all?”
Nope. Osama was quite pleased with our bankrupting invasion of Iraq, as well. I don’t believe that he was behind that, either.
Please understand. I have no idea where the money for this project is coming from. However, terrorist money nominally flows in only one direction. There is a guy from my local mosque doing 25 years for creating a charity that supported Hamas.
And I have no idea about the Iman’s motives for the project. However:
“There isn’t even a pretense of religious tolerance.”
Yes. There is isn’t even a pretense of religious tolerance. So? In it’s condemnation of the mosque, the Anti-Defamation League cited Turkeys’ intolerance of Christians and Jews.
No. You don’t understand. This is America. We do not measure ourselves against Turkey. Or medieval thugs in Afghanistan. We are better than them. We measure ourselves against our ideals. And nothing less.
“Regardless of whatever point you were trying to make here, RT, at least the Ground Zero Mosque has been given a fair hearing.”
But it did, Justin. Before the zoning board. the landmarks commission, and Mayor Bloomberg. Possibly you could get a TRO from an ‘activist judge’. Congress? They decide land use in lower Manhattan?You might want to remember this, the next time that the Federal Government steps into our lives.
“The fact that this Imam has shown such amazing insensitivity toward this site, not only proves to me that he and his fellow Muslims have no religious tolerance, it also proves to me that the have no tact, as well.”
The Sufis have come out against the mosque, for that exact reason. Part of Osama’s misdirection, I’m sure.
Hi Justin –
“yet fail to mention that in every single Islamic country, the mere mention of building a synagogue is enough to get you killed.”
Yes. You can get killed for proposing the building of a synagogue in the UAE.
Possibly you might recall Tariq Aziz, one of Saddam Hussein’s vice presidents. His nickname was ‘Bagdad Larry’ because his white hair made him look like Larry, the character from the television show “Bewitched”.
Tariq Aziz was a Christian. There was also a small Jewish community in Bagdad. They had been there for centuries. Of course, most of the Christians and Jews communities left after the invasion. Tariq Aziz now lives in Jordan. The synagogue in Bagdad is still open.
Saddam Hussein allowed more religious freedom than the thugs of Afghanistan.
There are two mosques around Ground Zero. One 4 blocks away, the other 12 blocks away. Both mosques are one room affairs that normally turn away people.
You recognize the basic injustice of this, but believe that we can be ‘forgiven’ this one instance because the rest of the Islamic world is so intolerant and an act of religious thuggery in Afghanistan. I understand your position.
I’m sorry about your friend.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
So if I’m correct, this Mosque is going to be built on private property, and is not for government use, so it is therefore protected under the First Amendment. Unless this mosque is going to deprive others of their Constitutional rights,(or NYC zoning law violoations) then there’s not much else to be said regarding the matter.
Hi Justin –
Here’s an analysis of the Fox Opinion poll on the mosque:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/08/obama-defense-of-ground-zero-mosque.html
“One’s personal position on the mosque is not necessarily the same as thinking that the City should take affirmative steps to prohibit its construction by eminent domain laws by or other means. [...] This is somewhat analogous to asking: “do you support or oppose flag-burning?”. Without additional context, it would be quite natural for someone to say they opposed it, but they might nevertheless consider it to be Constitutionally protected activity.
The only poll to have gotten the distinction right, believe it or not, is the one from Fox News. They asked two separate questions about the planned development. First, they asked:
A group of Muslims plans to build a mosque and Islamic cultural center a few blocks from the site of the September 11 terrorist attacks in New York City. Do you think it is appropriate to build a mosque and Islamic center near ground zero, or do you think it would be wrong to do so?
Only 30 percent of respondents said “appropriate”, while 64 percent said “wrong” — consistent with the apparent unpopularity of the mosque in other polls.
But Fox also followed up with this question:
Regardless of whether you think it is appropriate to build a mosque near ground zero, do you think the Muslim group has the right to build a mosque there, or don’t they have that right?
Here, the numbers were nearly reversed: 61 percent of respondents, including 69 percent of independents and 57 percent of Republicans, said the developers had the right to build the mosque; 34 percent said they did not.
Essentially, public opinion on this issue is divided into thirds. About a third of the country thinks that not only do the developers have a right to build the mosque, but that it’s a perfectly appropriate thing to do. Another third think that while the development is in poor taste, the developers nevertheless have a right to build it. And the final third think that not only is the development inappropriate, but the developers have no right to build it — perhaps they think that the government should intervene to stop it in some fashion.”
I don’t care for government intervention in the mosque, any more than I cared for government intervention in the Terri Schiavo case. I don’t like the government making decisions about property rights, zoning board decisions, and activities protected by the Constitution. In this matter, I may be the conservative in the conversation.
Hi Justin –
The Cordoba Mosque timeline.
http://www.salon.com/news/ground_zero_mosque/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2010/08/16/ground_zero_mosque_origins
A front page article in the NY Times, and almost nothing for six months. There is a remarkable interview between Laura Ingram and the Iman’s wife, Daisy Khan, on O’Reilly. Well worth watching.
very clever how supporters of tolerance in a misguided democracy end up on their knees
goodbye trusting docile intellectuals, along with the masses…..
Hi Justin –
I had totally forgotten about the Carmelite convent at the gates of Auschwitz. Contemplative nuns, praying for those who lost their lives there. JP2 shut it down, telling the nuns,”No matter how pure your intentions, no matter how pure your voice, this is not your place.”
Did you catch John Stewart last night? I knew that Daisy Khan had appeared on Fox. I hadn’t realized that the Iman, himself, had appeared on Fox, as well. It appears that he has closer ties to the Bush Administration and Fox News than your ’shady Middle Eastern extremists’.
The philosopher John Stewart also echoed your argument. “From now on, we are responsible for the worst acts of the a******s of our own religion. Timothy McVeigh was a Christian, therefore all Christians are responsible for Oklahoma City.” Stewart, as a Jew, then took responsibility for the crucifixion of Christ.
Go figure. I expect that I should take responsibility for that failed Benedictine seminarian, who was never excommunicated, Adolph Hitler.
If the mosque actually towered Ground Zero, I would agree with you. If the area two blocks from Ground Zero actually was a shrine, I’d agree with you. If the Iman actually had demonstrable ties to your ’shady Middle Eastern extremists’, I’d agree with you.
As it is, meh. This is loud and dumb, fulfilling two of my three complaints about our political discourse.
East of Eden -
Why do you say that? Without an explanation, you come off as somebody who got hit with a comeback and, in response, can only manage “your mom”.
Why is this democracy misguided? How do supporters of tolerance end up on their knees? Also, how do you define tolerance, and what degree of tolerance are these “docile intellectuals” taking? What is wrong with intellectualists if they are like RealTime53 – people who, so it seems to me, challenge ideas instead of accepting them, well, docilely?
tl;dr: Why? Be more constructive with your feedback, please.
Uninformed hysteria on your part, Justin.
Consider this possibility. The LAST thing extremist Muslims want, or would consider symbolic of “jihadist conquest” (or whatever scare words you want to use), is a SUFI mosque in an INTERFAITH community center at Ground Zero.
Glad you’re on twitter, ’cause you’re cuckoo!
First, it’s not a mosque. Second, you mention that there are half a dozen other mosques in the area and dozens throughout the region, but yet you paint this “mosque” as a “victory mosque” because Muslims tend to build mosques in places where they took other churches by force. What other churches were taken by force when those “dozens” of other mosques were built?
You say the call to prayer will echo through the valley where the towers stood. There are no plans for loud speakers and the site is 2 city blocks away. I don’t think anyone visiting the WTC site will hear anything.
Open your heart, man. It’s the Christian thing to do.
Sorry, but it is a mosque. It’s just a lot of other things, too.
Also, I’m not a Christian, but I’ll tell you this. If anyone should “open your heart, man,” it should be the Muslims who want to build this mosque. No one says they don’t have the right to build it. The point is that there’s such a thing as tact and sensitivity. Building a mosque two blocks from where your Islamic brethren knocked down the Twin Towers doesn’t show much of either. Everybody has painted this as “freedom of religion.” My friend, RT, has even insinuated that Americans have included other religions in other shrines, but doesn’t recognize the difference here. The whole reason the towers were knocked down in the first place was because of religion. Islamic “jihadists” destroyed two buildings and killed thousands of Americans in the name of Islam and “Allah.” If the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor because of a deep seated hatred for Christianity and out of zeal for Shinto or Buddhism, I doubt there would be a Shinto bell near (not at) the Pearl Harbor Shrine. The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor as part of a military plan, not because of a hatred for the American way of life. It was a military strategy. The destruction of the Twin Towers was personal. It was done out of a hatred for the American way of life. It had nothing to do with military strategy. It had everything to do with making a statement about Islamic superiority over “Christian infidels” (to use Osama’s terminology).
Hi Justin –
“The point is that there’s such a thing as tact and sensitivity.”
And I would agree. I could definitely wish that it were planned to be built somewhere else. If you had limited your original article to this point, my name would not appear as frequently in the comments section.
The mosque was announced it November, 2009. There was a front page article in the New York Times in December. That same month Laura Ingraham, on Fox News, told Daisy Khan, the Iman’s wife,”I can’t find anybody who is upset about this” (paraphrasing from memory).
It can’t be that sensitive. It took six months for people to realize that they should be outraged.
“If the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor because of a deep seated hatred for Christianity and out of zeal for Shinto or Buddhism, I doubt there would be a Shinto bell near (not at) the Pearl Harbor Shrine.”
It’s not just a bell. It’s a Shinto shrine. Acres of it. It overlooks Pearl Harbor. There was a scene in the movie ‘Pearl Harbor’ shot there. Shintos worship the Emperor as God. The Emperor is the head of …. well, you know where this is going.
Already, the mosque in Temecula, Ca is too close to Ground Zero. I’ve already mentioned the Palos Heights Mosque, before 911.
It’s not like the Iman didn’t try. The original land deal was on 23rd street. It fell through. However, that might have been too close as well.
“It was done out of a hatred for the American way of life. ”
Yes. And if Park 51 is built, OBL would dispatch a truck bomb to destroy it also, if he could.
Here’s the Iman Faisal Abdul Rauf at the memorial service for Daniel Pearl in 2003.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/08/ground-zero-imam-i-am-a-jew-i-have-always-been-one/61761/
Remarkable words.
“…where your Islamic brethren knocked down the Twin Towers…”
Rolls off the tongue!
Doesn’t sound so nice when it’s “your Christian brethren did XYZ,” or “your Jewish brethren did XYZ,” or “your white brethren did XYZ,” or “your right-wing brethren did XYZ,” though, does it?
David: “Open your heart, man. It’s the Christian thing to do.”
This reads as if you suffer from LKS, Larry King Syndrome, which is an affliction of nonbelievers who know nothing about the Bible but try to talk as if they know more than anyone.
And if you have been reading the Bible as a nonbeliever, then you have been reading other people’s mail. God’s Word is for believers. If you read it and have questions, fine, but no commentaries, please, on something you know nothing about.
As for the Christian thing to do, how about, “Be nice, but don’t be stupid?”
RT: As touchy feely and compassionate as your liberal links are, and that Daniel Pearl speech is certainly a tear jerker, it seems that Imam Rauf is quite the chameleon. The following is an excerpt from jihadwatch.org. I would without any qualification put jihadwatch up against your atlanticpolitics any day.
“But that was two months ago. More recently — in fact on May 26, [2010] one day after his Daily News column – Abdul Rauf appeared on the popular Islamic website Hadiyul-Islam with even more disturbing opinions. That’s the same website where, ironically enough, a fatwa was simultaneously being issued forbidding a Muslim to sell land to a Christian, because the Christian wanted to build a church on it.
In his interview on Hadiyul-Islam by Sa’da Abdul Maksoud, Abdul Rauf was asked his views on Sharia (Islamic religious law) and the Islamic state. He responded:
Throughout my discussions with contemporary Muslim theologians, it is clear an Islamic state can be established in more than just a single form or mold. It can be established through a kingdom or a democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of Sharia that are required to govern. It is known that there are sets of standards that are accepted by [Muslim] scholars to organize the relationships between government and the governed. [emphasis added]”
And isn’t he the same imam who insists that 9/11 was America’s fault?
You wrote above about Rauf, “He hasn’t denounced Hamas, I’ll give you that.” Support for Hamas should have raised all sorts of red flags for anyone, but it seems not to have fazed you. If someone doesn’t denounce Charles Manson’s behavior, do we likewise say about that person, “Other than that, he is fine.” M-13? Welch with the wire cutters? Lizzie Borden? Guards at Dachau? Black Panthers? Al Qaida? At what point do you finally draw the line? Or do you think it should all be overlooked and never confronted? “Other than that, they are all fine.”
This country can kowtow to Muslims all it wants, but this country can never ever say that it was not warned.
What a triumph for Islam. Given the support they will get from libs in NY and the president, this mosque will probably be built in less than a year. At the rate that the towers are being rebuilt, it will stand taller and prouder for many years. Isn’t that nice? Check the history behind “Cordoba” – it’s primary mosque was built on the site of a conquest – much like many of Islam’s most revered sites.
Once again we see total and complete incompetency in our president. While his supporters insist that he is brilliant and that our problem is that we are just not intellectually able to understand his position.
Not. As EVERYONE will come to understand, he is ignorant. Ignorant to real life – life outside of academia, outside of politics, outside of his own kind.
Like the college professor that can’t change a light bulb – he may be book brilliant – but he will find himself in the dark – and too arrogant to ask the janitor to change it.
Personally, I don’t care one way or another if they build an Islamic community center where they want to put it. It is NOT on the spot where the twin towers stood. It would be two blocks away. Why don’t people object to the porn shops and strip clubs in the neighborhood that are even closer to ground zero?
All this fuss is just bigotry against Islam, pure and simple. There are a heck of a lot of Muslims in this world, many of whom live in our country. Is it necessary to foment more hate and intolerance? That’s really a great way to tamp down terrorism, isn’t it?
“Personally, I don’t care one way or another if they build an Islamic community center where they want to put it.”
Judging from the rest of your comment, you do care.
“It is NOT on the spot where the twin towers stood.”
No, but the site was actually damaged by falling debris from the collapsing towers and like many nearby buildings in the weeks after the attacks, was surrounded by protective scaffolding. Ground Zero isn’t just comprised of the footprint of the Twin Towers. Ground Zero is the entire attack site, which stretched several blocks in every direction.
Why don’t people object to the porn shops and strip clubs in the neighborhood that are even closer to ground zero?
There are (at least) two reasons people don’t care about these places. First, most of them were there before the attacks. Second, they’ve got nothing in common with the people who destroyed those two buildings. If these strip clubs and adult book stores were fostering the ideology that led to the attack, you can be sure people would be just as adamant in their opposition.
“All this fuss is just bigotry against Islam, pure and simple.”
The opposition toward the mosque has nothing to do with bigotry. It has everything to do with respect. Do the owners of the property have a right to build there? Yes (after they pay more than $200,000 in back taxes). Is it the right thing for them to do? That’s what’s up for discussion. If you believe a Mosque at Ground Zero is appropriate, then you probably believe there’s nothing wrong with holding an Oktoberfest at Auschwitz, either.
“Is it necessary to foment more hate and intolerance?”
Calling someone a racist doesn’t make that person a racist. Opposing the building of a mosque at a site where Muslims killed thousands of people doesn’t equate to bigotry. This isn’t an attack on Islam. This is a vocal disagreement with a building proposal. The religion of the people backing the project is of no consequence. If a group of Christians and/or Jews wanted to build a mosque at this site, I can guarantee you that the opposition would be just as fierce.
The problem, here, Jean is that the people who oppose this mosque are concerned about a number of very real things. First, they see this mosque as a tribute to the people who committed the 9/11 murders. They believe this mosque will honor them and their final deeds. Second, the people who oppose this believe that the message sent to other Islamic radicals will be one of encouragement, as if to say, “Come! Destroy another American building and we’ll build another $100 million mosque in your honor.”
Can the mosque’s supporters say, with any degree of surety, that Islamic terrorists won’t be encouraged by its construction? Can they guarantee that Islamic fundamentalists won’t see the mosque as a tribute to the Muslims who committed the terror attacks on 9/11?